Ranch Investor Podcast

two cowboys riding a horse

Episode 7 | Your Land, Your Legacy: The Power of Wanting to Help New Landowners

Share:

Join Ken Arthun, owner of Arthun Resources, as he takes you on a journey through the world of land ownership in Montana. With knowledge passed down through four generations of his family ranch, Ken brings extensive experience in water, range, wildlife, and soil management. Along the way, Ken not only uncovers the complexities inherent in land management but also kindles a fresh determination to aid fellow landowners in navigating their unique challenges.

Whether you’re a new landowner or a seasoned rancher, listen as this episode aims to inform and inspire.

#RanchInvestor #RanchLand #MontanaRanch #LandManagement #SustainableLandManagement #LivestockDevelopment #RanchWater #SoilManagement

Ken Arthun:  0:00
I don’t know why in Montana, we keep not looking at our greatest asset. It starts with the soil and people do not understand that.

Colter DeVries: 0:08
I’m Colter DeVries, an accredited land consultant with the Realtor Land Institute and an accredited farm manager with the American Society of Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers. Thanks for tuning into the Ranch Investor Podcast.

Ad: 0:21
The Ranch Investor Podcast is the most downloaded and informative industry-specific content that intrigues while entertains.

Colter DeVries:  0:30
Ken,  you didn’t need to bring a notepad. 

Ken Arthun: 0:34
I know, but I was scared I was going to forget something. So I thought I better.

Colter DeVries:  0:38
Well, you’re not in the hot seat. So, so no worries. I brought you on to hear what you’re up to. We’re, we’re shooting the shit a little bit before the recording button got hit. And you’re, we’re catching up on all the old times of class C basketball in Montana.

Ken Arthun: 0:55
Absolutely.

Colter DeVries: 0:56
You were telling me about the family’s 800, 1200 head operation in the Shields Valley.

Ken Arthun: 1:02
Yeah, well, that’s that’s pretty coveted.

Colter DeVries: 1:04
Yeah, everyone wants to be in the Shields Valley.

Ken Arthun: 1:10
Yeah, it’s a grassroots organization. Of course, you know, we’re the grandson and great-grandson of homesteaders who came from Norway at the turn of the century, and we never had anything to start with. So, so we had to cash out and start, and they. They actually lost the, lost the homestead during the depression, and they were able to, able to buy it back. And,  and, uh, but that was our start and, and they had four sons and, uh,  and they all, well, five sons; actually one died of appendicitis, but when you couldn’t just a horse and buggy, you couldn’t get them into town, you know, to get it taken care of. So that uncle of mine died, but they came down to the Shields Valley from that Ringling, uh, White Sulphur area after World War II in the early forties and later forties. My dad was in the war, and my uncle was in the war, and they came home and started buying some land around Wilsall. And like I said, we always had the cash flow. So, it was a slow gain, but, but, uh, my dad was, uh, before he graduated high school, he was Charles Bair’s driver for two summers. And so he drove all the way from White Sulphur all the way down to the Crow Agency down here. And, and I think my dad, it kind of warped him after that. I think he had bigger thoughts, you know, even as a, 14 or 15-year-old driver for Charles Bair. I don’t know. I think he got the big picture after that. So he was always, maybe let’s say he always pushed a little harder and maybe had a different outlook than a lot of people did. And so he was kind of the driving force behind the brother. He was always the wheeler-dealer, and land trade, and his brothers were involved in the operation. He’s in a full partnership with land and then Carl was another brother. And then they could buy bigger parcels because they pull all our assets and do it from that.

Colter DeVries: 3:19
So, and we’re, for context, we’re talking about Charles Bair, who is one of those Montana,  uh, cattle barons. He actually sheep. He had about a million sheep. Million sheep. And they would run them from, as you mentioned, the Crow Reservation. This had to have been in the late 1800s. Early 1900s, 1900s. They would run them from the Crow all the way up to Meagher County.  And for all the Texans wanting to buy an elk hunting ranch in Montana, it’s Meagher County, not Meagher Irish. But, Charles Bair still has the bear ranches in the foundation. The Bair family made millions, and, they contribute to the universities and different scholarships, very charitable trust at this point. But one of the original John Duttons of Montana is who Ken Arthun is talking about, and Ken Arthun is one of those names you talked about the homesteader legacy, probably a lot of Norwegian boys, bachelors to marry off and go start another homestead. So Arthun is one of those names in Montana,  where fifth-generation Montana, like me, can hear that you’re an Arthunian. And I’ll say, Oh, you’re either Joliet, Abzorkey, or the Shields Valley, kind of like the Simonton. You know, someone says they’re Simonton. I know immediately they’re from Northeast Montana or a Schwinn. I know that they’re from Joliet or Bridger. There’s just some of those family names. And, And you’re one of them.

Ken Arthun: 4:52
Yeah, yeah, it’s, we’ve been there a long time.  I can hardly go anywhere in Montana if I mention my name or and they, they, people always know you just, you’re around someplace like that long enough people just, uh, I don’t know, they’ve just, uh, it’s just your name precedes, sort of, you know, and it’s weird, it’s strange, but that’s the way it works in Montana.

Colter DeVries: 5:14
Well, and that’s one of the dying legacies, the dying cultures that, unfortunately, we have to accept. We bring up here in the podcast quite a bit you, Class C basketball Shields Valley. Most of the, most of your teammates were farmers and ranchers, right? Totally. And then you guys would go play little towns like Fromberg and Roberts, and you played against some of my uncles and cousins, and I don’t have any actual uncles you would have played against, but, uh, you would have played against some DeVries cousins, and we have that commonality across Montana from all the way from Ekalaka in the Southeast, 900 miles Northwest to Eureka, and, uh, every point in between. And that’s dying. That’s, what do you, what do you see there in Meagher County and Wheatland County? Um, those are because of the mountains there. Those are two highly desirable areas, depending on what side of the mountain someone wants to be on in Sweetgrass County.

Ken Arthun:  6:15
Yeah, absolutely. It is, it is totally changing, though. I think, uh,  Uh, there’s very few, uh, you know, total farm, total farm and ranch families in the Fields Valley now.

Colter DeVries:  6:24
Just the homesteaders. Yeah, just, just, just, just. Probably the third plus generation.

Ken Arthun: 6:28
Yeah, just a handful, and a lot of those places, you know, have been split out and more are going to be, you know, so it gets less and less every day. But, uh, as you were speaking there, it’s. It was so cool. We went, uh,  against one, one, uh, family from, particularly from, from White Sulphur that my dad played his dad. I played him, and my sons played his son. So, yeah, it was just, uh, yeah, it was just a, quite a rivalry. And we, they were all good friends, you know, it’s just, it’s just what happens in Montana.

Colter DeVries: 7:00
You have those rivalries, small town, either inner district when they’re just 20, 40 miles down the road or else. When you get to divisionals, they’re three hours down the road. And then when you get to the state, they’re seven hours down the road, but Montana is just one long main street, right?

Ken Arthun: 7:19
It sure seems that way. It’s just incredible. The connections, it just overwhelms me almost every day.

Colter DeVries: 7:25
So like me,  you’ve identified that, Hey, I can’t fight this. This market is changing. My neighbors are billionaires and cash flow isn’t necessarily their primary reason for buying a ranch as it was for the families that you grew up with, who had the cash flow that was their existence. So you’ve identified a need for some local management. Is that correct?

Ken Arthun: 7:53
Yeah, I just uh, we had the opportunity to, uh,  to sell some of our bottom ground to my, so I sold it to my brothers and my cousin. And then we ended up buying a, uh, a place in Plentywood and my son is up there right now on that. And, and, uh, so we’ve changed that way. And, uh, And it gave me an opportunity to, to kind of open up my scope a little bit and, and that’s why I’ve started a land management consulting deal. It’s trying, it’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s to help the new landowners kind of to identify their place, because, you know, having a lifetime in the, in the ag background, it, you know, you can see things. You grew up knowing things and, and the people that are coming in don’t necessarily know this, you know, they don’t know about noxious weeds or, or erosion or soil health or, or water development for, and so, uh, that’s why I started the business is called Arthun Resources and, uh,  It’s to help those people and, uh, so that they might have a better buying experience and that their neighbors might have a better experience too, from that.

Colter DeVries: 9:10
You’ve seen a few newcomers come in and probably, uh, maybe, not understand the water rights or the fencing issues. And then that could start off on the wrong foot, and then it’s not too fun for the next couple of years—many years between neighbors.

Ken Arthun: 9:31
You know, the saddest thing is that. You know, us Montanans, we’re,  if we have a disagreement, it’s, it’s, it’s better to stand toe to toe and, and, uh, and you can always work something out. It’s just amazing what you can do when you stand toe to toe and communicate. But it seems the first order of business anymore is, is you run everything through a lawyer. God, if you really want to screw things up, that’s a great way to do it. So, and, and it seemed like,  It can, you can spend millions and accomplish absolutely nothing where a handshake and, maybe a few thousand dollars would have been all that would have had to change hands. You know, I’ve seen easements go awry and water rights go awry and, and, and about everything imaginable in those terms. And, and it’s just, it’s really out of just kind of lack of shared knowledge. And so that’s, that’s the reason to get together. And, and a lot of, a lot of the people don’t realize that coming in, but. But, it would be great if they did.

Colter DeVries: 10:31
Lack of shared knowledge and granted sometimes these agreements for access and water usage and fencing,  trailing livestock across someone’s place. A lot of times, those are verbal and generational. They’re not recorded, written, or signed. There’s been no compensation made. It’s usually just friendly handshake agreements on the old dial-up telephones. And when the new person comes in, that’s going to be very problematic, isn’t it?

Ken Arthun: 11:04
It, it, it is. And it has been already, you know, to a huge degree. And, uh, um, it’s just that, um, you know, it, it just didn’t, it used to work like that in Montana, but, but now it does, you know, and so it would encourage people that, you know, if they, if they are doing something like that,  you know crossing somebody’s property would sure be nice to get that in writing, you know, and uh as um. Yes, things are changing very quickly.

Colter DeVries:  11:33
I can relate. We’ve had a neighboring 200 irrigated acres sell a couple of times in the last ten years, probably three times, maybe even more, but since we’re located near Red Lodge. There’s, you know, it’s highly desirable there’s going to be some turnover if people aren’t committed for the long term, and you know, our place obviously is, and one other neighbor is generational, long term,  and we’ve had this water usage unwritten, an unrecorded agreement between the three ditch owners that, so our 120 inches, you know, we use minor inches in Montana, and a lot of places in Montana, so we have 120, the neighbor has 200,  The other neighbor has about a hundred. So one neighbor is fairly dominant, right? They have more, and that’s the place that’s turned over a couple of times. And the way we irrigate up there is that you take the full ditch for three days, then you pass it. And they get the full ditch for three days. And it’s not, it’s not the legal way. I mean, you should be able, you have a right to access your 200 inches anytime you want. And that is your 200 inches. But the way that those fields irrigate and that growing season in the crop being used grass,  you, you want to flood it and the soils. There’s a reason that you want to put all 600 inches down at once. Okay.  And so that’s, that’s always been the agreement between the unwritten unrecorded agreement. Every time a new person buys that place next to us, we have to educate them. Hey, we understand that you have the right to access your 200 inches anytime you want. We should get a box and separate that. Here’s the reason why we don’t do that. And they, they have heartburn over it at first. Uh, most, most newcomers don’t like farmer agreements. They don’t, they, you know, one thing, Ken, they might think that we good old boy neighbors are trying to screw them.  We’re trying to pull, pull the bowl over their eyes and pull one on them. They might think we’re trying to screw them, but they soon do realize there’s, there’s a reason, a method behind the madness, and it’s mainly driven by the soil and the crop, but it just takes, you know, continuing communication.

Ken Arthun: 13:59
Yeah, in a situation like that, a lot of times all water is lost in conveyance too, so if you don’t have the whole thing, you can get absolutely nothing done and, and so like you said, it’s a, it’s a compromise move and, and, uh, but it’s hard to spring, spring that on to somebody that’s not familiar with that system of neighboring, I guess.

Colter DeVries: 14:18
Yeah, and another one is every time that changes hand, uh, the last owner is behind on their ditch maintenance, and granted, someone just stepped in, and they bought a $1.5 million place. And you tell him, Oh, by the way, you owe 800 bucks for his ditch maintenance. Oh, they, they get their pennies in a bunch. They’re just so upset about 800 bucks on $1.5 million. I shouldn’t have to pay for that. That was his ditch. It’s like, well, we’ll never get it from him. If you want your water, it’s 800 bucks.

Ken Arthun: 14:49
Yeah, that’s true. There’s a lot, lot in water conveyance. My uncle was a pro at making sure the water got to the point of attack, and so I learned a lot from my uncle as about as far as clean ditches and, and how to get to water from the pond or the stream bed to the, to the field. It makes a huge difference.

Colter DeVries: 15:09
Well, comment on that because there’s another cultural paradigm where you and I look at ranches, and we see water for irrigation and livestock use the new buyers in Meagher County, they’re saying, do I have enough water here? Is the point of diversion such that I can put up ponds and I want to build ponds, and I want to change the channel? I want to change the point of diversion. And then, going back to our little dispute on the East Bench near Red Lodge, I want my water all year long. And how do you feel about, I mean, I guess you and I just, we just have to accept it and say, Hey, this is the world we live in, and you know, we got to make a living too, so if they want water for ponds. For amenity ponds, how have you been handling that?

Ken Arthun: 16:00
Well, you know, we’ve been around it’s kind of amazing you brought that up because we’ve been kind of suffering from pond overdose, but uh, yeah, and they’re uh, I uh, I do know that the DNRC is allowing now water for ponds and they recognize that so really there is, there isn’t a lot a guy can do with that, but I do know that in the future, it’s going to come up more and more often. And I’m close enough to the Bozeman, uh, area that I know it’s just been a horror story over there.

Colter DeVries: 16:41
Uh, the neighboring state of Bozeman.

Ken Arthun: 16:42
Yeah. The neighboring state of Bozeman with ponds could seem like everybody builds a pond, whether sometimes they were able to just, you know, dig in the ground. You’re kind of exposing the water, you know, what I mean, the groundwater then was I seemed like to me when you do that, but, and, and those, a lot of those ponds, like, uh, toward Gateway, they’re, uh, they’re fed by irrigation ditches that leak. So they kind of dry up in the summer or dry up in the wintertime. And, then, here they come in the summertime. And I know my brother and sister have a place over there. And one of the neighbors there decided to build, build their, uh, on a ditch that was conveying through through him. They just built their pond right on this ditch. So, the sad news is that there is no enforcement division of the DNRC. So, then you have to fight that in court. So you may not have your like in his case, he lost his water for the year because he had to fight that. And to get that, you know, his ditch conveyed around the pond and onto his property. So, it’s a kind of continual nightmare that, uh, is a Montana. It’s going to get a lot worse, actually, in the Western part of Montana. And, and that’s why, um, like with my business, I would hope to address that and tell people what, what they can do and what they can’t do, you know? And I think that there’s a lot of misinformation.  I don’t know, when they buy this piece, nobody’s taught him or told him anything. Well, a lot of times they’ve come from areas where they either know nothing about water or nothing about water rights, and so they just put in a pond, and then there’s just great disappointment afterward that they can’t fill their pond, and they’ve spent a bunch of money for nothing, and that’s one of the reasons I started my company to try to help those people so they don’t do that.

Colter DeVries: 18:36
A little bit of consulting goes a long way. A little bit of local knowledge and advice keep you out of an attorney pickle and another thing before it gets to the attorneys. Why not, why not practice mediation? Let’s just get another third-party independent, objective opinion in here and find a way to work this out without having to take it to the district court.

Ken Arthun: 19:00
Absolutely. Yeah, I don’t it’s just sad that, you know, like I say, the DNRC has we’ve entered into several water right arrangements and but they don’t have any teeth I mean, there’s, they don’t they don’t have an enforcement division so he can come to the best damn agreement in the world, but you can’t enforce it.

Colter DeVries: 19:19
So we don’t want them to have. They were uh castrated to the highest level

Ken Arthun: 19:31

But I’m just saying it’s hard to manage You know, you make an agreement, and yet there’s nobody to oversee the agreement.

Colter DeVries:19:31
Well, it starts with the water commissioner. Yeah. And well, it starts with the private parties, property rights agreement between parties, and then the commissioner can weigh in. And then, if he can’t figure out the resolution and educate both parties as to why it is, what it is and how it’s going to be, what it’s going to be, then it should go to the district court. And you should have your local representatives, uh, locally elected judge weigh in on it. And if it takes a locally, uh, assigned jury pool, they’re going to find people like you who are of that, of that local area to weigh in on this property rights, this landowner dispute. And the last thing we need is Montana becomes more absentee owned, more tourist,  uh, occupied. You know, I would consider someone who’s a seven-year-old to visit for four weeks of the year at best. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s a form of tourism, right? You’re not, you’re not vested. You’re not committed to the long term,  but we want to keep that out of the water court and out of the state’s hands because, the state, inevitably, wants control. They want your water rights. They want to tell you how it’s going to happen.

Ken Arthun: 21:58
It’s been in the news for the last several weeks. There has been a development on the east side on goals, and they’re stopping the development over there because of a lack of water, and that’s going to court. I think, fairly, fairly in the near future. And then, uh,  uh, I always can’t think of the other one right off the tip of me that there’s, oh, another. So, there’s is that Bill Galt?  Uh, you know, I think it’s in Bill’s place there.

Colter DeVries: 21:36

So Bill Galt is one of the largest landowners in Montana. He and my dad are taking up this issue. I don’t know if you’ve heard that,  but they are, uh, filing an amicus brief on behalf of Scudders, which Scudders is another family name, old Dutch potato farmers, huge landowners in the Gallatin Valley, and Bill Galt and my dad are taking the fight to the state. And that’s probably why people can hear me come across as very pro-local control.

Ken Arthun: 22:06
Oh, yeah, and all government. I mean, it was all local control. We wouldn’t have the mess we have right now in the country.

Colter DeVries: 22:15

And so yeah, and I’ll just any listeners who are with Montana DNRC You’re going to lose that one. Well, enough about my chatter. Tell me, tell me how this change has been. Has it been slow? I mean, it’s been slow, right? It’s been happening for 30 years. Ted Turner—I think he bought his first Montana ranch in the late eighties, which is when I was born—so I can say, you know, I don’t know the era that you grew up in. I’ve always been part of this—absentee ownership, you could say.

Ken Arthun: 22:53
Right, exactly.  I, I grew up when it was,  it was like, like, when we bought that place in Plentywood, I, I keep telling everybody it’s, it’s the greatest place in the world. It’s like going back in Wilsall South 30 years ago because all the old farmers and ranchers are on the farms and ranch, and then in Wilsall, it’s totally not the case anymore It’s, uh, very few of the family ranchers are, that are left there and you learn you lose a lot of community, but I mean those seem like those lifetime guys are so vested In the community that they are just I mean you can’t even describe it. There’s just it’s it’s beyond reproach. You just can’t do it. I mean, it’s just like those Plentywood people, you know, if there’s a funeral, they’re all there. You know what I mean? It’s like, and that’s how it used to be in Wilsall. I’m not saying that it’s, it’s not that way still in Wilsall because people have really worked hard to keep it that way, but it’s the people that have been around a while, I’m not saying some of the newer people haven’t tried really hard because they have, but. But I’m just saying it, uh, it’s a sense of community that you kind of lose through all this, you know, I go into the if I go to the bank bar after 10 o’clock, I won’t know a soul in there. You know, it’s crazy. You know, I used to know everybody in there in the bank bar.

Colter DeVries: 24:11
Or White Sulphur Springs on the opening day of rifle season. Insane. Insane.

Ken Arthun: 24:18
Yeah,  exactly. But, it has really changed a lot. I mean, uh, it started kind of when I was more in high school, and that’s kind of when you’d see it in the seventies, and it’s, and since then it’s kind of slowly, you know, as a ranch would go out, you know, it was just enough that was kind of out of egg range for trying to purchase it. You know, and, uh, I think the last big land deal we did was, was in the, oh, we, I guess we bought land all the way up to the current, but the last huge deals we did were in the seventies and right before, right late seventies, and then the interest rates went to hell and we got, we got, I think in 1971,  we got 96 cents for the steer calves and, and 19,  the next year, we got 27 cents for the steers. And we couldn’t sell the heifers. So, oh man, that was, we went in and then the interest rates started up into the 20%. So, we got welcomed to the world of debt right in a hurry. You know?

Colter DeVries: 25:20
Yeah. So I’m not, I’m not the only one who has that story of buying high and selling low.

Ken Arthun: 25:25
Yeah, it’s been going on in the egg world forever. So yeah, and we keep doing it. We’re consistent. We’ll do it again tomorrow.

Colter DeVries: 25:34
Yeah, that’s right. You weather the times and you weather the difficulties because your life depends on it. I mean, there is no outside income. There is no additional family wealth backing you. And you just got to cut costs and live thin like a coyote or a jackrabbit.

Ken Arthun: 25:49
And people, all of our suppliers, all wonder why we’re so tight with our money. Well, that’s the only way we can cut costs,  try to make the best deals, you know.

Colter DeVries: 26:00

I can recall my grandpa calling probably five or six different tire shops between Powell, Wyoming, and Belgrade, Montana. Looking to save 50 bucks on a tractor tire.

Ken Arthun: 26:13
Yeah, no, that’s right. That’s what we do. That’s what we do, you know, and people think we’re, like I said, thrifty type, but I mean, it’s the only way you can save money.

Colter DeVries: 26:23
So, what’s your business called?

Ken Arthun: 26:25
It’s Arthun Resources.

Colter DeVries: 26:26
Arthun Resources. And, uh, you were part of the Ringling Five. That sounds like organized crime syndication. It sounds like something that would be on a Netflix documentary.

Ken Arthun: 26:43
Yeah, it should have been. It was 40, 40, some years of craziness. It was a wonderful deal.

Colter DeVries: 26:50
What is the Ringling 5?

Ken Arthun: 26:51
Well, I don’t know, it, it started out, you know, we, well, for starters, it’s, it’s, it was my, my, uh, cousin Les, my brother Ron, and myself, so there were three Arthuns in the group. And Larry Lovely, which I started Sunday school when I was five. And so people asked us, well, how long you guys been singing together? I said, well, golly, ever since I was in Sunday school when I was five, you know because that’s all we did in Sunday school. We didn’t have a lesson. We just sang. So, so it was a great, and, uh,

Colter DeVries: 27:20
Kind of like a homeschool band.

Ken Arthun: 27:23
Yeah, pretty much. And so then we had a. A couple of tremendous music teachers, uh, Mrs. Blinn, uh, in high school, and Mr. Arthun. Oh, yeah. And, uh, and, uh,  and then we really didn’t do anything with it. Larry Lovely always had a band and then, then, I don’t know, we came home from college. We’re all MSU. Uh, Go Cats guys and, uh, and, uh, we came home from school and, um, I don’t know, uh, a honky tonk piano player, we’d have some special events around, and she’d want us to write a song for that or sing a song. So we started singing some songs, and then we started writing some songs, and then, then that led to a whole lot of craziness, you know, so, I mean, thousands, well, I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands of miles. Uh,  2000 shows

Colter DeVries: 28:11

Every mint bar and Stockman bar in Montana. There are many mints in Stockman’s

Ken Arthun: 28:17 

Yeah, if you saying in Garneill, Montana, or is me, you’ve sung about everywhere, Montana. And we did.

Colter DeVries: 28:28
So tell me more about your services, which I assume do not include performing as the Ringling 5 on the ranch.

Ken Arthun: 28:38
Yeah, no, uh, as far as my business services, uh,  we, uh, we, uh, start out with, uh, range management. So we do a species identification, species analysis, and analysis, and some range plots, GPS plots and away from the waterways people, you know, they always. It’s waterways or livestock developments for water. You know, they’re gonna, you know, animals are lazy, and they’re always going to pound that grass. And so you want to get your plots up away from that. So that’s what we do. Then we actually clip and weigh those plots and photograph them. And then you,  we have a precipitating factor we add to that. And then, uh, then you can actually, uh, measure the range and, and take pictures. And then it’s for. It’s for people that don’t know and understand and, and, uh, you know, you’re not going to explain it much, so. You know, an old, old, old-time ranch guy, but for some of these newer people coming in, it gives them some actual proof that what we’re looking at. And we do a species, species analysis of the wildlife and, uh, and they can, you know, you can, you know, I’ve seen them a lot of, uh, food plots potty put in and. I haven’t, and, uh, one of the newer landowners of Shields just put in several hundred acres and, and wanted to, you know, entice the elk in for hunting season. But, uh, the elk had eaten up mid-summer, so, so, you know, there’s a lot to be learned for that.

Colter DeVries: 30:14
Maybe think about some warm-season plants that last longer through the fall.

Ken Arthun: 30:19
Right, or, or they’d actually, would actually in that situation, you’d have to fence them off, you know, so. And then we’ve done a ton of water development at our place, including pipelines and spring development. I think I’ve developed at least 30 springs myself with a backhoe and one helper. And so we have a ton of experience doing that. And, I was part of the Shields Watershed Group, and we’ve done some restoration work on the Shields and been able to see how that’s worked out for people.

Colter DeVries: 30:53
And, generally, if it’s good for the ruminant, it’s good for the ungulate. Spring and pipeline and cross fencing and riparian. Habitat. You’re going to do that. I mean, today’s owner is going to do that for the wildlife, right? And for the amenity value. It does improve the livestock operation, which then improves the soil, the grasses, and the species, which then improves the wildlife.

Ken Arthun: 31:20
Oh, tremendously. It’s just that it can’t be enough said. Like I was telling you earlier, you know, they, they have a tendency, the livestock and game will have a tendency to, you know, stay on the water when it gets hot in the summertime. And the more water developments, the more you can scatter the animals. And it’s a win-win deal for everything and everybody, every species out there. So,  that’s fantastic. So, yeah.

Colter DeVries: 31:43
Yeah,, that makes me also think about these, the new buyer set, which try not to have a value judgment upon. Everyone’s free. We are free. We pursue our own dreams.

Ken Arthun: 31:58
This is America.

Colter DeVries: 32:01

Yeah, we get to pursue what we want. We have private property rights.  It’s a beautiful thing to chase your dream. And a lot of these people are chasing their dreams. So I definitely don’t want to come across as shaming anyone, but they do lack insight into basic resource management. And in particular, I’m thinking about weeds. Weeds is a big one. I come across when showing a place, and they’re looking at the view. They’re looking at the Ponderosa pines. They’re looking for elk. They’re not looking down at the feet seeing, Oh, this is nap weed, or this is vent nada or leafy spurge. And then. In the event that it, well, I’ve been on showings where they, you know, call, call leafy spurge and spot a nap, weed, a pretty flower, right? Purple pretty flowers and purple or yellow, pretty flower plants. And it’s like, no, those are noxious weeds. And, oh, okay.  It’s actually, it should be like, do you want to think of a plan, how to control that, how to knock it out? Cause that’s kind of your obligation or, you know, going back to community. You take care of your side of the fence. Make sure your side of the street is clean. Your neighbor is going to do the same. Especially if you’re committed for the long term, you’re vested.

Ken Arthun: 33:29
Yep. You can’t, you can’t say enough about that. I mean, as far as you just, you know, You can’t be, uh, pain in all your neighbor’s rear end because, you know, you’re, you think it’s a flower, not a weed because it’s, you know, it’s gonna not only take over the neighbor but it might, you know, might take over the public ground next to the neighbor.

Colter DeVries: 33:50
So government ground. I don’t, I don’t do, we don’t, we don’t use the word public around on this podcast. The public does not have the right to shit. On government, the government owns it. The public does not.

Ken Arthun: 34:02
They keep taking away, you know, what they say is, and then they’ll, they’ll say there’s public access, but then they’ll take it away in five years.

Colter DeVries: 34:10
Well, if you think you own it, Mr. public land owners out there with your nifty little shirts and bumper stickers, just set up a house and try it. Actually set up a tent and try to be there for four weeks, be left alone. And furthermore, you know, harbor something in that tent and, and see if the government needs a warrant to enter your tent on these quote unquote, public lands. I digress, Ken, we’re talking about your business.

Ken Arthun: 34:38
No, no, totally. Yeah, no problem. No problem. No, it’s very true. It’s very true. So all the above.

Colter DeVries: 34:45
So we were talking about responsible resource management. What goes into that?

Ken Arthun: 34:51
Well, it’s, it’s like you said, it’s, it’s not just weed control. It’s water development, uh, soil health, uh, you hear a lot about,  uh, rejuvenation and soil health and, and, you know, you can do a ton for that. Uh, one time I, uh, I get so sick of when it rains, uh,  three or four-tenths or five-tenths in our little valley, the rivers and the streams instantly turn brown. They instantly turn brown. So one day, I said, my God, I’m so sick of this. And I, I thought I’m just going to get, I got on my four-wheeler. I said I’m just going to follow and see where this starts. I started at my place and went up into the hills behind my house. Where it actually was coming from was an old-growth fir on the north slopes, because there’s absolutely nothing growing under those old-growth fir trees. It’s absolutely, totally bare ground. So it’s old-growth fir, and it rains just a doodle. If it runs at all, then it’s going to run into those streams. So, we, I don’t know why in Montana, we keep, not looking at our greatest asset. It starts with the soil and people do not understand that. And the forest service, I don’t know, they haven’t done anything about it. So they obviously don’t know, or they sure, um, don’t seem to know anything about that. And if I think that on government land, I think that there’s, they actually don’t log the waterways. And I was thinking that would be the best thing to do would be to log the waterways and have grass filter strips so it could stop some of that soil before it gets into the stream rather than, you know, letting that old girl fur grow right into the waterways. So, I know I could be wrong on this deal. I’m not totally familiar with it. Maybe you know more, Colter.

Colter DeVries: 36:42
Timberland Management? The east slopers do not do a lot of timberland management when you’re from an 11-inch precinct zone. The trees are not of merchantable value. It generally comes down to encouraging a good root layer, right? In the soil. And how do you do that? You use root ruminants. The natural progression of timberland environments includes fire, thinning, rest rotations, and changing seasons of use. And yeah, I mean, you look at these ponderosa pine. And unfortunately, cheatgrass is pretty prevalent and cheatgrass is going to dry out earlier. So as you mentioned, three-tenths of a rain, three-tenths of an inch rainstorm. There’s no grass there holding onto that soil. So it will sediment the waterways, unfortunately. And that’s why, uh, the public doesn’t own shit because the public should be out there solving it. They should get out there and start rotating cows and sheep around a little better and spraying, but, uh, that’s the government’s responsibility. They own it, and their hands are always tied through administrations.

Ken Arthun: 38:02
Yeah, absolutely. It is amazing that. You know, actually you can do, you can do more with grazing animals than you can do without them and people don’t, you know, I guess they’re all into worrying about cow farts right now, but it’s just amazing actually, and you talk about, uh, we had some land leased in, uh, in, uh, south of Livingston, uh, higher mountain property and, and the landowner was always worried about, uh, fire danger. And I’m going, my God, we got, we had 400 cows up there. And I said, well, we got the best, the best wildlands fire preventers in the world right here. And just start around your house and kind of hit that a little harder and work yourself around. But it seemed like common sense knowledge. I know it’s just amazing how we, how we sometimes forget what cattle can actually do for a place, you know,  while at wildland fire prevention all the way till, just simply grass management and, and, you know, reseeding the grass and, and, uh, you know, our philosophy was always, you know, if, you know, unless it was a complete drought year to, you know, take half, leave half and. And we, uh, and that way you can kind of, it’ll get you through the dry years unless you get three or four stacked on each other and, and on the wet years, you look like a king, you know, so you don’t have to use the grass.

Colter DeVries: 39:22
Well, given this is the Ranch Investor podcast, you’re one of those families who took a beautiful mountain Western Montana ranch and you expanded to Eastern Montana. Tell me what went into that.

Ken Arthun: 39:36
Well, it was a long process. It probably took five or six years, and we did a 1031.

Colter DeVries: 39:47
So you capitalized on those incredible land values in western Montana and grew your operation in the east, where the dollar per acre dollar per animal unit was more favorable, right?

Ken Arthun: 39:56
Exactly. And we uh, And we sold it to my brother and cousin. So we were able to keep that in the family. And so,  so we just look at it as growing the homestead. Now that’s a weird way to look at it, but I think of it as that. And, uh,  And if I’d have sold to some outsider, I wouldn’t have been able to sleep with myself, and I wouldn’t have, I would have been talking out of both sides of my mouth on this podcast, but we didn’t do that. And, uh, we’re able to keep it in-house and, uh, and very thankful for that. And they all speak to me at home still. So that’s a great thing too.

Colter DeVries: 40:33
So still go to the Mint in the Stockman, right? 

Ken Arthun: 40:37
Somebody will still buy me a drink, and that’s a good thing. But, but, um, Yeah, we were, and we had some friends up there, and my daughter actually married into the family and kind of grew up in Plentywood too. And so, uh, we looked for a place for years and actually went door to door up there, to be honest with you, my son, and he had a good college friend. And that’s kind of how that all started. And so, uh, we were patient, and finally, we heard about this place, though, an old Nash brothers place. There was actually an old New Holland dealership there and in Redstone, Montana. And so they own most of the town. And so it got, we, we have most of the town was about three lots. Three lots.  Yeah. And a bunch of, a bunch of broken down buildings, but then, then, but we bought the farm with that. So, it was a historic place too. And, and, and, and in fact, Mrs. Nash just died, and she was 90 some years old, just a few weeks ago. And, and, uh, and it was important to them that, uh, it’s sold to a family. You know what I mean? So my son’s up there and took his three daughters and wife up there, and they’re making plenty with home, you know, so.

Colter DeVries: 41:49
Well, as we wrap this up, I want to hear a little more about your services and how people can get in touch with you. Where can they find you? How do they contact you?

Ken Arthun: 41:58
Yeah. Well, I just, uh, wanted to say, uh, uh, we have, you know, I’ve dealt with a lot of family issues over the years too. And people, I was, I was on the school board for 12 years and the farm credit board for 12 years. And, and so I have a lot of experience and with people and, uh,  And in fact, I think the last school board election I uh, I ran unopposed. I think of the 246 votes, I got 220. I thought, my god, if you can be on the school board for 12 years and only piss off 20 people, I thought I must have done a hell of a job. Uh, so I anyhow, I think that uh, I can provide a lot of the services that I spoke about earlier, plus I have a lot of family experience, and people experience and And, uh, I’ve always, you know, like you said,  mediation would be way better than, you know, getting to the court system. I mean, the court system is there. I guess if you, like you said, you know, have some water issues you have to address, but it sure is nice to settle things toe to toe sometimes. And that’s sometimes what’s most lost in this land’s trance, which is transferring to this, the newer Montanans, you know, so I think I can provide that too. So if I have a website, it’s arthunresources.com, I’ll give my number too. It’s, uh, 4 0 6 2 2 0 1 5 5 6. So, that’s my phone number.

Colter DeVries: 43:32
Well, I appreciate you coming on the podcast and giving your perspective. We, we certainly don’t see the Wilkes brothers on school boards. Do we? 

Ken Arthun: 43:40
Yeah, for sure. We don’t, you know, as part of Montana, you probably won’t see again.

Colter DeVries: 43:45

So no, no, this is.  This is in the rear view and guys like you and I are trying to figure out how to add value looking through the windshield.

Ken Arthun: 43:54
Absolutely. And thank you, Colter for very much for having me on. It’s been great chatting with you and like you say your, your name is so familiar, too and it’s so cool to see that Montana is just the coolest thing.

Colter DeVries: 44:08
Well, Ken Arthun, arthunresources.com, Thanks for coming on the Ranch Investor podcast. It’s been a pleasure.

Ken Arthun: 44:16
Thank you very much again, Colter.

Ad: 44:18
Click subscribe on your streaming platform, so you know when the latest episode has dropped.

0:00
Montana’s Farming and Ranching Legacy

8:22
Land Management Consulting for Neighbors

15:54
Water Rights and Community Impact

28:28
Resource Management Services for Ranches

34:49
Land Management and Ranch Expansion